Posts: 1831
(06/18/09 08:51 PM)
My dad totally just pissed me off.
I put the new Lo-Fi sticker from Blend Apparel on my laptop and my dad came in and said, "what does the sticker mean?" and I said, "Well, see the heart? it's suppose to mean you radiate love. It's suppose to make you think about the design." He just looked at me and said, "Ummmm, okay. So what your saying it's for yuppies? Only yuppies would put that on there stuff. Can you honestly imagine any of my friends wearing anything from Blend Apparel?" I was like, "Ummmm, no but your friends suck. lol" and he was just like, "Just saying only yuppies would wear stuff like that." So, I guess that means I'm a yuppie in his mind? And, what the fuck is fucking yuppie anyways?
Asshole.
He's never been supportive of anything I do. He always has to burst my bubble. You'd think after 10 years of living together what he said wouldn't bother me but it does. I just wish he didn't care as much about what I like. It doesn't affect him at all. He'll never understand me.
maryp7
Posts: 1249
(06/18/09 08:54 PM)
Oh, sweetie, I'm sorry
xandiee
Posts: 1748
(06/18/09 09:11 PM)
TJ, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie
doesn't sound as bad.. I'll be a yuppie with you TJ ♥
sltchocum
Posts: 1832
(06/18/09 09:16 PM)
Thanks. But I don't think he meant it like that lol.
He's going out of town this weekend. Maybe he'll go and talk about me and my "yuppie" friends. Just another thing to add the list of things we differ on (which is pretty much EVERYTHING). I was having a really good day too and he had to come in and totally shit all over it. I'm glad he's going out of town for the weekend. Pay me my $40 you owe me and don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
xandiee
Posts: 1749
(06/18/09 09:35 PM)
Haha, yeah, well try and not let him bother you. I know my sister and her friends were making fun of me when I told them about my last birthday party (when it was still on planning stages) and Blend and Billy, they thought I was looney. But then I invited them and of course they were all shocked and pretty much enjoyed the night more than they had imagined. SO you'll never know, one day you'll be working with Blend or something, you'll get the recognition for your work and your dad would be jaw dropping and regretted ever saying those things to you.
sltchocum
Posts: 1833
(06/18/09 09:58 PM)
Yeah your right. See, I can always count on you guys to make me feel better. The only time he was ever been proud of anything I did was when I made the collage picture of our dog. I knew he liked it because it made him cry.
I'll get over it like I always do but I just wish he'd shut his mouth and never talk to me lol. He always makes me so mad. He says EVERYTHING in this tone where it's like "Well, why would do that dumbass?" Plus it doesn't help that he's crabby ALL OF THE TIME. I just want to say, "You know, you have a good job, a family that, for some reason, loves you so what happens during your day where it makes you SO crabby by the time you get home that you just have to snap at everybody? Are all of your days really that AWFUL where you come home with this same attitude EVERY night?" It gets sooo old. My mom complains because he doesn't get home until late, but secretly I love it. I feel better without all of his negative energy around me. And, of course when he is home and has had a couple of beers then he's your best friend. I mean, I guess it's better to have a nice drunk than a mean one, but it's pretty sad that thats the only thing that will put you in a good mood. Even when we went to Florida on VACATION he was SOOOO crabby. I don't get it. Obviously he's unhappy about something but I have no idea what it is. It's not like he has a real hard life (nor do myself or any of my family members for that matter).
Seriously though, how could your friends think you were looney for planning the best birthday EVER? lol
Waldener.softlybeforeisc...
Posts: 1421
(06/19/09 04:43 AM)
^ My mom's like that. She always so critical of everything I do. It makes me feel like shit. Especially when everyone else in my life tells me that the like stuff, and then she goes and bashes it.
MoKat72
Posts: 3248
(06/19/09 05:46 AM)
TJ, I'm not actually trying to defend your dad because he sounds like Red Foreman, but maybe you'll forgive a "grownup's" perspective?
He might have it harder than you think. He has a "good" job, but is that just in terms of pay? Is it possible that he's actually miserable there, but can't do anything about it because he's lucky just to have a job in this economy? It's emotionally draining to have to spend your whole day every day somewhere you hate and to feel like that's just the way things are permanently. Then you come home and your wife is mad because you work so late and your son doesn't want to talk to you, etc., etc....
Personally, I would say to him exactly what you said above...but maybe in different words. If you and your mom can muster some compassion for him and actually sound like you're trying to understand, maybe it'll make things better for all of you?
Sorry...I know you came in here to vent, not for advice, but I'm kind of a meddler.
ash29ley
Posts: 226
(06/19/09 07:15 AM)
While we're talking about parents... nowadays i probably see my dad like 25 times a year, and almost all of them its because i have to help him with something, like a side job, or cleaning his house (where i don't even live). if you want to spend time with me why can't we go out to dinner or something and you can actually be a part of my life and know whats going on! The funny thing is i don't even care if i don't see him, its not worth my effort, thank god for my wonderful mother.
SharpToNY
Posts: 5
(06/19/09 11:16 AM)
UNHOLY CRAP!!!!
Sltchocum, your father does have a huge problem, no wonder he's so depressed, to have a son like you. I really feel for this man, to have such a disgusting jerk for a son, without even a rudiment of conscience, who talks about his father on a public forum, and without any hesitation, covers him with all sorts of crap. He even calls his own father an asshole!
Even from what his degenerate of a son writes about him, one can see that the man seems to be a smart and decent person, maybe not always eloquent in his definitions, but one who obviously has the right vision and common sense. It's probably such a pain to work your butt off till late every day to support a family which includes an adult son, preocupied with doingnothingness, who doesn't have a minimal sense of gratefulness, and a minimal sense of shame, and who's capable of spitting on his father just for "bursting his bubble". As a matter of fact, IT IS A BUBBLE totally blown out of proportion by RKOP's patronizing, hypocritical flattering, and endless back-patting. I have news for you, Sltchocum. You're not an "average designer". Jon Marro is average (or somewhat below). You are... a peace of hat...let me put it that way. Even against the kindergarten level of art exchange in RKOP, you demonstrate a notorious level of giftlessness. And instead of looking at yourself with the eyes of people in the real world, you are pissing on the only ones you can trust to honestly and disinterestedly care about you. In the end, it's your own problem, of course, but in this case, as they say in the courts, "the society is insulted" (I don't mean this viper-nest of a community called RKOP, who speak of love all the time mostly in the form of stickers and t-shirts, I mean normal, decent people). In ancient Rome, they used to put characters like you into a sack with a monkey, a dog, and a snake, and then threw it in the water.
IMMEDIATELY edit and delete those disgusting posts of yours, run to your father, and ask for forgiveness.
DO IT NOW!!!
sltchocum
Posts: 1835
(06/19/09 11:40 AM)
Mo, my dad is A LOT like Red Forman it's scary! lol My sister is the princess and my brother and myself get treated like crap.
He does have a good job in terms of pay, but I know that where he works now isn't his dream job. He never did go to college and pretty much started working at his dad's company right out of high school. And don't get me wrong, I've cut him slack because I know that his job isn't the most exciting, but just because he had a bad day doesn't mean that I want him coming home and ruining mine. I've tried talking to him after he comes home from work, but all he does is pretty much snap at everything I say or has to argue about whatever we're talking about until he convinces you he's right. Now it's to the point where I don't talk to him unless he talks to me first. I've been to his work before and I admit it's not the most glamorous place, but I've worked there before and it's not that bad. I mean, my grandpa and my uncle work there so it's not like he's surrounded by people he doesn't know. It's a pretty comfortable place to work. It's a lot like the show The Office where everyone kinda just does there own thing lol (except... not funny lol).
I've also tried cutting him some slack because he's had a really hard time with our dog dying (well we all have). I'm not saying that he should just get over it (because none of us are over it. It's still really hard to talk about), but he needs to learn to manage his anger and sadness by taking it out on something else and not his family and co-workers.
And, I totally respect your advice. I know your just trying to help by looking at it from a different perspective.
Thanks guys.
Waldener.softlybeforeisc...
Posts: 1424
(06/19/09 11:50 AM)
SharpToNY wrote:
UNHOLY CRAP!!!!
Sltchocum, your father does have a huge problem, no wonder he's so depressed, to have a son like you. I really feel for this man, to have such a disgusting jerk for a son, without even a rudiment of conscience, who talks about his father on a public forum, and without any hesitation, covers him with all sorts of crap. He even calls his own father an asshole!
Even from what his degenerate of a son writes about him, one can see that the man seems to be a smart and decent person, maybe not always eloquent in his definitions, but one who obviously has the right vision and common sense. It's probably such a pain to work your butt off till late every day to support a family which includes an adult son, preocupied with doingnothingness, who doesn't have a minimal sense of gratefulness, and a minimal sense of shame, and who's capable of spitting on his father just for "bursting his bubble". As a matter of fact, IT IS A BUBBLE totally blown out of proportion by RKOP's patronizing, hypocritical flattering, and endless back-patting. I have news for you, Sltchocum. You're not an "average designer". Jon Marro is average (or somewhat below). You are... a peace of hat...let me put it that way. Even against the kindergarten level of art exchange in RKOP, you demonstrate a notorious level of giftlessness. And instead of looking at yourself with the eyes of people in the real world, you are pissing on the only ones you can trust to honestly and disinterestedly care about you. In the end, it's your own problem, of course, but in this case, as they say in the courts, "the society is insulted" (I don't mean this viper-nest of a community called RKOP, who speak of love all the time mostly in the form of stickers and t-shirts, I mean normal, decent people). In ancient Rome, they used to put characters like you into a sack with a monkey, a dog, and a snake, and then threw it in the water.
IMMEDIATELY edit and delete those disgusting posts of yours, run to your father, and ask for forgiveness.
DO IT NOW!!!
What the hell is wrong with you????? How judgmental can you get? If someone comes here to vent, they're here to say what they need to say and don't need assholes being mean about it. It's none of your fucking business. You don't know TJ and how dare you say all that shit. Go to hell.
ash29ley
Posts: 229
(06/19/09 12:04 PM)
yea... that guy was way out of line, what did TJ ever do wrong? So what if someone calls their parents names, especially if they deserve it, if a parent can't respect their child why should they get any?
sltchocum
Posts: 1836
(06/19/09 12:36 PM)
Ignore them. I know who this person is and she is pathetic. Don't worry about it. She goes by multiple usernames on the message board and is only here to piss people off (oh she's also manages the PORK message board). If you acknowledge her she only comes back to piss you off. Just ignore her like I always do.
SharpToNY
Posts: 6
(06/19/09 02:02 PM)
I alway knew what kind of people are in RKOP, but this level of pathology still comes as a surprise. Alright, there's no choice. It's time to acquaint the "grownups" with the monster children they raised. So it's my plan now to get in touch with the families of sltchocum, Waldener, and ash29ley (actually, it's much easier than they think), and show them their Maugly offsprings in their prime.
Also, I now agree with my colleagues that it's high time to drive public attention to the fruits of Jason Mraz's inspirations.
As you were.
p.s. You know that the PORK team neither forgives nor forgets insults towards Maria Sirota. I sure won't.
rocketcat
Posts: 9335
(06/19/09 02:42 PM)
^You're going to TELL on him?
classic.
SharpToNY
Posts: 7
(06/19/09 03:23 PM)
rocketcat wrote:
^You're going to TELL on him?
classic.
Don't you think parents should know the moral state of their children after all the time spent on RKOP? And the support and influence they get in this "community"? Obviously they have your support now.
Indeed, "what did TJ ever do wrong? So what if someone calls their parents names" in public? It's ok, right?
Oh, I know, you're "not taking sides".
Classic.
rocketcat
Posts: 9336
(06/19/09 04:52 PM)
Sure; they should know. Did I say they shouldn't? I just think it's fitting that YOU tell them. Just like I think your concern over "taking sides" is... predictable.
Posting on RKOP does not assure people of my support, though this seems lost on you and some of the others from PORK. But the good thing is that now you're all part of the same RKOP community. Welcome. It's comforting to think that, since you find membership in RKOP both ugsome and morally offensive, you can now share that burden with the rest of us.
SharpToNY
Posts: 8
(06/19/09 06:25 PM)
rocketcat wrote:
Sure; they should know. Did I say they shouldn't? I just think it's fitting that YOU tell them. Just like I think your concern over "taking sides" is... predictable.
Posting on RKOP does not assure people of my support, though this seems lost on you and some of the others from PORK. But the good thing is that now you're all part of the same RKOP community. Welcome. It's comforting to think that, since you find membership in RKOP both ugsome and morally offensive, you can now share that burden with the rest of us.
Posting on RKOP as is does not assure people of anyone's support, neither yours nor ours.
But your post in this particular thread, 2 posts ago, was clearly against me and indicated indirect support of the others.
Telling or not telling the parents is not up for discussion (it has to be done because it's the last resort in dealing with this unconscionable gang), the issue is what they think YOU think about their behavior. And that's also my question, because while my position is clear (being a father myself, I'm absolutely furious), you might think differently, and I'm sure that's what they suppose.
You weaseling your way through a discussion is... predictable. But for a change state your position please.
I'm glad that you find it "comforting to think that, since we find membership in RKOP ugsome and morally offensive, we can now share the burden with the rest of you." I agree completely, it is "ugsome" and certainly morally offensive. So you have two options: to keep silent and not express any opposition, or to raise your voice about it. We do the latter. This way we share the burden, but not the responsibility.
rocketcat
Posts: 9338
(06/19/09 06:34 PM)
My position on telling one's parents off publicly: against. it's childish but forgivable in an adolescent.
My position on tattling on people who do so: against. it's childish, but feel free.
I'm not nearly so afraid to express my views as you seem to think. I have a LOT of opinions, and you are welcome to them.
Why you care about them so, I don't know. But ask and ye shall receive.
Waldener.softlybeforeisc..
Posts: 1427
(06/19/09 06:41 PM)
can we just all admit we're wrong and drop this? Look I'm sorry for offending you and anyone else, but this has gotten out of hand and I apologize for whatever part I had in it. I love and respect my parents and I'm sorry if it comes off as otherwise. Aren't we all human? Don't we all make mistakes? Again, sorry for any offense from my comments.
SharpToNY
Posts: 9
(06/19/09 07:15 PM)
rocketcat wrote:
My position on telling one's parents off publicly: against. it's childish but forgivable in an adolescent.
My position on tattling on people who do so: against. it's childish, but feel free.
I'm not nearly so afraid to express my views as you seem to think. I have a LOT of opinions, and you are welcome to them.
Why you care about them so, I don't know. But ask and ye shall receive.
Telling adolescents, especially ones in their 20s, that it's only childish and forgivable to disgustingly bad-mouth their parents on a public forum, is neither childish nor forgivable.
So I don't care very much about your lots of opinions other than in this case, because the "told-off" parents might also be very interested in what kind of 40somethings on that forum have influence on their kids.
You're asking for it. And ye shall receive.
fluff
Posts: 338
(06/19/09 07:22 PM)
girl at work, please don't complain about putting in 80 hours and getting a check for over $1000. i know lots of people who would jump through hoops to have the job you have.
danielle702
Posts: 7033
(06/19/09 07:31 PM)
fluff wrote:
girl at work, please don't complain about putting in 80 hours and getting a check for over $1000. i know lots of people who would jump through hoops to have the job you have.
Me!
rocketcat
Posts: 9341
(06/19/09 07:53 PM)
SharpToNY wrote:
Telling adolescents, especially ones in their 20s, that it's only childish and forgivable to disgustingly bad-mouth their parents on a public forum, is neither childish nor forgivable.
That's why I didn't bother, until you insisted. I thought Adrianne had done a fine job at presenting the other side logically, and that you had the opprobium well under control without my belaboring the issue with my opinion.
So I don't care very much about your lots of opinions other than in this case, because the "told-off" parents might also be very interested in what kind of 40somethings on that forum have influence on their kids.
I support your indifference to my opinion.
I would argue, though, that you stand to cause more pain to those parents by telling them about the post than they have right now. I wouldn't want to do that, but I understand that you might choose to.
You're asking for it. And ye shall receive.
I'm not sure what you feel I'm asking for.
You asked for my opinion and received it, but now there seem to be hard feelings.
SharpToNY
Posts: 10
(06/19/09 10:56 PM)
rocketcat wrote:
That's why I didn't bother, until you insisted. I thought Adrianne had done a fine job at presenting the other side logically, and that you had the opprobium well under control without my belaboring the issue with my opinion.
Yeah, as always, you "didn't bother". You just stepped in, made a provocative comment... and then "huh? Was it something I said?" Then for some unknown reason, I "insisted" on you defining your position, and what did it turn out to be? Let me remind you: what sltchocum did is just "childish and forgivable". That's your current message to him, and it stays.
I don't know who Adrianne is, I'm assuming it's MoKat. The meaning of her post was that she "does not defend" sltchocum's dad, but asked that sltchocum forgive him. She concluded with stating that personally, she would say exactly the same thing, only in different words. So all in all, her thought is: sltchocum's dad- that's the problem! Is that what you call a "fine job at presenting the other side logically"? Please stop playing dumb and trying to convince me that that's what you really "thought".
"You had the opprobium well under control without my belaboring the issue with my opinion" What's that supposed to mean?! Are we forming a debate team now? Are you letting me express the position for both of us?
I support your indifference to my opinion.
I would argue, though, that you stand to cause more pain to those parents by telling them about the post than they have right now. I wouldn't want to do that, but I understand that you might choose to.
Yeah, yeah, let's not cause any pain to the parents, just let things continue happening behind their backs. I asked sltchocum to edit and delete all the crap he wrote. Did he? And now, after your opinion, he can proceed with even more confidence.
I'm not sure what you feel I'm asking for.
You asked for my opinion and received it, but now there seem to be hard feelings.
You're asking for the consequences that logically follow being shady and hypocritical.
rocketcat
Posts: 9342
(06/20/09 08:14 AM)
SharpToNY wrote:
what sltchocum did is just "childish and forgivable". That's your current message to him, and it stays.
Yeah. That's still my opinion.
I don't know who Adrianne is, I'm assuming it's MoKat.
Woops. That's entirely my bad; I should have gone back to make sure I was right about who posted. Sorry, ladies.
she would say exactly the same thing, only in different words.
She encouraged him to understand and communicate with his father. You are encouraging the same thing, only in different words (mostly anger and disgust, with the occasional threat). I still think she did a good job at making herself understood, and at getting TJ to think through his anger and come out the other side.
"You had the opprobium well under control without my belaboring the issue with my opinion" What's that supposed to mean?!
Thanks for asking. I believe that all messages contain both logical and emotional content, and either one can affect the listener's receptivity. Mo selected a sort of big-sisterly approach, designed to calm down someone who -- seeing as he's in a thread designed for letting off steam -- is clearly expressing strong emotion. You selected a significant amount of angry berating -- more than I feel the crime warrants, myself, and a surprising amount for someone with quite limited knowledge of the injured party. It did not result in the behavior you requested.
Anyway, I usually don't read the venting thread (too much invective for my taste), so by the time I wandered in here, TJ had vented, some folks had sympathized, others had talked him down, you had told him off for it and been insulted in return. I considered the matter well vetted. I read and, having no additional emotional input regarding the situation, chose not to comment. This is what I meant about not belaboring the issue.
Your next strategy was to threaten to tell people's parents. To me, this was both surprising and amusing, so I commented. I still find it so, actually, but you were offended by my lack of seriousness, and it is not my goal to offend you. Since then I've been attempting a sort of level-headed desire for understanding and am marginally happier with the results.
You do still seem very, very angry, though -- not only for the original crime but for my complicity with it. I do not dispute your implication that I can be considered guilty for my inaction -- I am merely flummoxed by your depth of feeling about the issue. I suspect we also disagree about the seriousness of my crime and the appropriate punishment, both in the context of all possible crimes -- and indeed in the context of my myriad faults.
So what's next? We've both stated our opinions and been heard and answered. Is there a way to move on? Is there something you feel I should be doing to make amends? If not, you are suggesting that TJ's comment and my unwillingness to shame him for it are SO offensive as to warrant... what? Anything besides your bad opinion of me and your strong emotion? If I better understood your goal, I might be able to help you achieve it.
You're asking for the consequences that logically follow being shady and hypocritical.
What consequences are those? Do you simply mean a karmic-like "what goes around comes around", or do you mean to threaten me with (or inflict) a specific punishment?
geekinthe purple
Posts: 3301
(06/20/09 09:10 AM)
Where do you go to vent about the venting thread...
ha....
*Jeannette*
In other news, I wish you a happy Father's Day this weekend.
angeleyes8412
Posts: 1014
(06/21/09 03:30 AM)
*whimper*
got called into work this morning, only to find that our lobby was flooded yesterday and we have no breakfast area (because of the lovely stench of mold)... ALL the cars need to be moved from our parking lot due to city maintenance... 92% of our rooms need to be checked out... and our fire alarm has been misfiring since yesterday.
PLEASE wish me luck.
SharpToNY
Posts: 12
(06/21/09 08:25 AM)
rocketcat wrote:
SharpToNY wrote:
what sltchocum did is just "childish and forgivable". That's your current message to him, and it stays.
Yeah. That's still my opinion.
Then there is no difference between you and Sltchocum. You turned out to have the same attitude and morale. However, unlike him, you can't use intellectual deficiency and immaturity as an excuse.
She encouraged him to understand and communicate with his father. You are encouraging the same thing, only in different words (mostly anger and disgust, with the occasional threat).
I don't understand, are you hoping that nobody will go back and read her original post, or what? She was only proposing "forgiveness" and tolerance towards the guilty party- his father, and otherwise completely supported TJ, and even apologized for interfering with his venting. In other words, she suggested TJ forgive his father, I suggested TJ beg for his father's forgiveness (which he doesn't deserve). How on Earth did it come to your mind that I "encouraged the same thing"?
I still think she did a good job at making herself understood, and at getting TJ to think through his anger and come out the other side.
Are you kidding me?! Read his subsequent posts!
Once again, the issue is not sltchocum improving the bond with his father, the issue is sltchocum improving his bond with humankind.
Mo selected a sort of big-sisterly approach, designed to calm down someone who -- seeing as he's in a thread designed for letting off steam -- is clearly expressing strong emotion. You selected a significant amount of angry berating -- more than I feel the crime warrants,
More than you "feel", or less than you feel... was there a "crime" or not? If there was a crime, there should have been at least remote disapproval, brought to TJ's conscience. Or, as we can see now, you're clearly signaling that there was no crime, whatever he did was ok, and there's nothing to regret. Of course you have the right to your "opinion", but TJ's father (as well as any other civilized person) might have reservations about your encouragement of these kinds of ethics.
I hope we're both talking about crime as a moral category. Unfortunately, these days people don't understand moral/immoral anymore, they only understand legal/illegal; if it's legal, it's moral, that's what they're made to believe. But i hope that on your level, there is no misunderstanding.
As for me, I wouldn't hesitate to say that there was a heinous crime committed, of which you and the RKOP "support group" are accomplices. I should also tell you that sltchocum's comment is a lesser crime than your "unwillingness to shame" him, because your position is PRINCIPLED.
I could never have imagined that the proper treatment of parents would become an issue requiring explanation and proof, but we are obviously dealing with an ugly situation where people don't even understand what they don't understand.
Without even appealing to the authority of religious or communal traditions, common to all nations from prehistoric times, I can only say that honoring and protecting one's parents is a basic human instinct, the absense of which can be diagnosed as a psychotic abnormality. Also, I don't want to present endless historical and literary examples, illustrating the same ethical principles, from the biblical cursing of Ham by Noah (which, by the way, was a milder case than this one), to King Lear. The message in all of them is one and the same: children's ingratitude is the worst kind of crime.
Another thing, which is outlined by the moral instinct of mankind, is the sense of betrayal. There is no definition of it in any code, neither in Hammurabi's law code, nor in Roman Codex, nor even in Biblical Commandments, because betrayal is rejected by people instinctively. Dante places traitors at the very bottom of hell, in the 9th circle, below all killers and rapists, because there is nothing lower than betrayal.
So how shall we define the cold-blooded betrayal of one's father?
Even if sltchocum's father were a deadbeat who stole from the household and caused trouble with the police all the time, even then, dirtily badmouthing him in front of everybody would be inappropriate and unacceptable. However in this case, the only guilt of TJ's father is NOT SUPPORTING HIS SON'S PROFESSIONAL MRAZ/BLENDAPPAREL FANSHIP. That's all. Of course from RKOP's viewpoint, what can be worse than that? So the poor abused child, sltchocum, was coddled and consoled by big sisters and mamas ("Oh, sweetie, I'm sorry").
a surprising amount for someone with quite limited knowledge of the injured party.
So was there an injured party or not? And who was it?
Speaking of "limited knowledge", as I mentioned in the first message to sltchocum, he (maybe unwillingly) gave a portrait of his father that is pretty distinct and called for respect. Of course, to TJ, his father is an inferior, very limited person who is incapable of understanding the refined products of brilliant inspiration ("it radiates love, don't you understand, you asshole?"), but to me his father gives the impression of being a smart and dignified man.
It did not result in the behavior you requested.
Are you saying it resulted in the behavior Mo requested? (that's a rhetorical question of course). As for me, I didn't request "the behavior", I requested TJ's urgent repentence - his last chance at remaining human.
Anyway, I usually don't read the venting thread (too much invective for my taste), so by the time I wandered in here, TJ had vented, some folks had sympathized, others had talked him down, you had told him off for it and been insulted in return. I considered the matter well vetted. I read and, having no additional emotional input regarding the situation, chose not to comment. This is what I meant about not belaboring the issue.
Bravo, what a testimony! No further questions, your honor.
Your next strategy was to threaten to tell people's parents.
It's not a threat, it's a plan. There's no way to fight immorality other than with publicity. For starters, we'll help the RKOP "support team" look at themselves through the eyes of the parents who realized that their children are becoming morally mutilated. After that, we can proceed with bigger audiences.
Actually I have to agree with some people that it's time to attract the attention of the general public to the deliberate manipulation of young people into this new, fashionable ideology, which is "don't let your mind stop you from having fun" while "your fun is to consume Jason Mraz in all ways, shapes and products. Whoever interferes with this ideology is your enemy, even if it's your parents, so you should resist. This is the meaning of your life, this is what you live for. Oh, and you've got to slap people in the face and tell them to be an idiot." I agree that the destructive effect of this ideology is comparable to the damage caused by statutory rape, and what happens to TJ is a good example of it.
So I just announced that I consider it my moral duty to inform the parents of the danger for their children, and from their children. Let me state it clearly: if everything stays the same by the end of Sunday (I don't want to interfere with any celebrations), Monday will be another father's day for sltchocum.
When did I "imply" that you can be considered guilty for your "inaction"? I stated quite directly that you should be considered guilty for your action. For your support, justification, and even promotion of profound immorality to a big group of adolescents. You got involved, and the result of your involvement is negative.
Your "unwillingness to shame" TJ means straight declaring that you see nothing shameful in what he does. It means he can continue the same way, and others can follow his example, while RKOP, and you personally, will indulge such actions of theirs and defend them from people like me.
what's next? We've both stated our opinions and been heard and answered. Is there a way to move on? Is there something you feel I should be doing to make amends? If not, you are suggesting that TJ's comment and my unwillingness to shame him for it are SO offensive as to warrant... what? Anything besides your bad opinion of me and your strong emotion? If I better understood your goal, I might be able to help you achieve it.
You're asking if there's something you should be doing to make amends while stating your unwillingness to actually do what should be done out of plain decency. So I conclude that you don't mean what you write.
And to tell you the truth, I doubt there can be any positive outcome with RKOP. In the past year, we haven't seen a single sparkle of good will here, except maybe the recent post of Waldener (although I think the girl just panicked, and rightfully so). However for you personally, I would still suggest applying your intellect as a positive influence on these people, rather than justifying the persistent degradation of most of them.
I understand that my opinion of you doesn't matter. I also doubt that the opinion of my friends matters much to you either. So I think we should try public opinion. Who knows, maybe that'll start making a difference.
Honestly, I don't know what kind of consequences there will be, I can only say that there will be some for sure, but what form they will take, I can only estimate as well as yourself by outlining the cause and effect relationship between the circumstances.
In other news, I wish you a happy Father's Day this weekend.
Thank you. Yes weekend!
Waldener.softlybeforeisc
Posts: 1429
(06/21/09 12:19 PM)
I will admit that yes there was some panic there, but that doesn't mean that I didn't mean what I said in my apology. I've never been one to start trouble or get in the middle of it, so it worried me when I did. I am sorry and do regret what I said. I don't want to come off as being fake, I'm a very real person. I just wanted to let you know, that my post was not completely panic-induced, though there was some panic once I realized what I was getting into and I apologize for that. In fact, I told my parents about the whole thing and apologized to them. Like I said, I don't like trouble.
bluesbaby74
Posts: 7601
(06/21/09 02:20 PM)
Unfortunately, I can't really help out as requested (in private messages) because someone has gone and deleted their original posts. Because of that, I can't see the full story or argument. What I do see is a pork-er making totally unsolicited comments and criticism against an rkop-er. However, part of this story is still missing. I would suggest that this thread stay on topic, which is to VENT. It is not to ATTACK. So don't use people's personal venting against them. This thread was started so that others can vent and get support, not be attacked.
On the other hand, I'd also like to remind everyone that this is a public forum. Anything you type on here is seen by anyone who wants to see it. And you run the risk of them using it against you. And I'm sure it will all end up somewhere else... so post at your own risk. But if you start attacking members you're going to run into trouble. If you old-timers don't want trouble following you, then I highly suggest you ignore it. If you click the "ignore" button on someone's profile, you won't have to see any future posts by them.
danielle702
Posts: 7043
(06/21/09 03:08 PM)
I can't find an ignore button.
CurbsideProphet813
Posts: 835
(06/21/09 03:22 PM)
(Not ignoring you, Danielle, just using ya as an example. )
To ignore just click More >> Ignore User's Posts.
Super handy.
ConnectAcute
Posts: 29
(06/21/09 03:29 PM)
danielle702 wrote:
I can't find an ignore button.
"She just wants to push your buttons and it's working. there's really no point in responding to it, it's not worth wasting your energy on." -bluesbaby74, 1 year ago
ConnectAcute
Posts: 30
(06/21/09 03:41 PM)
CurbsideProphet813 wrote:
pork free is the way to be
Free PORK
Awesome
And not for the dork.
danielle702
Posts: 7045
(06/21/09 03:43 PM)
CurbsideProphet813 wrote:
(Not ignoring you, Danielle, just using ya as an example. )
To ignore just click More >> Ignore User's Posts.
Super handy.
Thank you!!
Airianya
Posts: 791
(06/21/09 04:14 PM)
ahh thank you for showing where the ignore button is.
i do want to vent though. i wish it would actually keep you from seeing anything from that poster, not just collapsing the post. but whatever. it will work
ConnectAcute
Posts: 31
(06/21/09 06:13 PM)
SharpToNY
Posts: 13
(06/21/09 06:46 PM)
Waldener wrote:
I will admit that yes there was some panic there, but that doesn't mean that I didn't mean what I said in my apology. I've never been one to start trouble or get in the middle of it, so it worried me when I did. I am sorry and do regret what I said. I don't want to come off as being fake, I'm a very real person. I just wanted to let you know, that my post was not completely panic-induced, though there was some panic once I realized what I was getting into and I apologize for that. In fact, I told my parents about the whole thing and apologized to them. Like I said, I don't like trouble.
You made the correct decision. It was the right thing to do, and the smart thing to do. Unfortunately, more and more youngsters are starting to think like ash29ley "if a parent can't respect their child why should they get any?". The point is, you can't demand respect; you can only earn respect. There is no way around it. The earlier you learn that, the better. And I can frankly say that you've just earned mine.
rocketcat
Posts: 9347
(06/21/09 10:35 PM)
SharpToNY wrote:
Then there is no difference between you and Sltchocum.
Your "unwillingness to shame" TJ means straight declaring that you see nothing shameful in what he does.
I think of both of these statements as hyperbole, but I see your point.
When did I "imply" that you can be considered guilty for your "inaction"?
You accused me first of being unwilling to "take sides", and then of not taking TJ to task (or doing so insufficiently). I think of these things as inaction. You seem to see my lack of comment as active support, which again I consider a stretch. But about this specific incident, I've already said I don't approve; I simply have a wildly different opinion of the scale of the offense than you do. So I conclude that you mean that in the wider context of my participation in RKOP. Again, we clearly have different estimations of the value and drawbacks of RKOP as a community. That's understandable; you're ill-positioned to see most of the positives, and I've been around long enough that the negatives don't bother me as much.
Anyway, I thank you for your detailed response, and for maintaining a (mostly) civil tone in responding to my questions. I was interested in what punishment you think these crimes deserve -- because "unforgivable" might suggest you support putting us all to death. But I get it -- public shame. That's what I would have expected. Carry on, then. I'm ready to be judged.
(On a related note, I think there is a VERY interesting generational issue about what is appropriate / inappropriate to do or say "in public", i.e. online. Sometimes it's not clear to me whether a kid thinks it's OK to do something in public, or s/he just hasn't thought far enough to recognize their Facebook page, RKOP post, tweet on Twitter etc. as truly public.)
Also, I think the ostrich pic is amusing...
SharpToNY
Posts: 14
(06/22/09 12:45 PM)
rocketcat wrote:
SharpToNY wrote:
Then there is no difference between you and Sltchocum.
Your "unwillingness to shame" TJ means straight declaring that you see nothing shameful in what he does.
I think of both of these statements as hyperbole, but I see your point.
No, you don't see it. My point is that morally, you are WORSE than sltchocum. I already explained why, so there's no need to repeat it.
Yes, your opinion on the scale of the offense is WILDLY different from that of a dignified person, I would even say SAVAGELY different. You define the act of an adult (2 years eligible to vote) calling his father an asshole publicly, ranting about him and dragging him thought the mud in several posts, as just "childish and forgivable".
It's not a joke. What he did is already irreparable and will haunt him further in his life, unless he somehow manages to reverse it with deep regret.
In some societies, even today, he would automatically be put to death for what he did. People tend to think that if he's capable of this, he's capable of anything. In other words, people understand that it's not about the action itself, but about what makes people commit it. If someone murdered once - he's a killer, if he once forced sex on somebody - he's a rapist.
However, in this progressive "community", TJ expects support and gets it right away.
What's the conclusion? This community, where you are one of the most noticeable members, far smarter than most of them, even put together (don't take that as a compliment though), has turned into a real haven for moral outcasts, not to mention that this community is actively proselytizing and attracting more and more members every day. Also, don't forget that there are literally billions of people around the world who are now ready to kill us to protect their societies from such manifistations of our intensively-exported "way of life".
You accused me first of being unwilling to "take sides"
I have never accused you of "being unwilling to take sides", I accused you of PRETENDING that you are not taking one, while you are always, constantly, actively on one side. And it shows in all cases, no matter how skillfully and evasively you camouflage it.
In this "specific incident", you eventually said that you "do not approve", without even defining any moral reasons for it, while (speaking of scales) putting both my actions and TJ's on the same ethical level, as both "childish". So in the end, it's all the same "support", only expressed vaguely, and in a provocative form.
"In the wider context of your participation in RKOP", I do not think we are ill-positioned. We have clear, sharp viewpoints which we readily share. And we actually see only one drawback of RKOP: IT CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH AND THOSE WHO TELL IT. So whenever you suggest that we communicate with our "wits", bear in mind that there are only 2 wits RKOP uses. One is called Shewhodaydreams, the other is Bluesbaby74 (quite a shredded wit, but bitchier). In the end, these are your wits as well (by the way, I can't help wondering who "requested" the mod's "help" this time?).
Other than that it's like celebrity- like his fans, like fans- like celebrity.
Anyway, I thank you for your detailed response, and for maintaining a (mostly) civil tone in responding to my questions.
You're welcome, and I think I maintained a civil tone 100%. Please show me examples of otherwise, then I'll be happy to apologize.
But I get it -- public shame. That's what I would have expected. Carry on, then. I'm ready to be judged.
Judging by your bravado, we can either conclude that you consider your moral integrity irreproachable, or you don't care about what people think of you, and their "willingness to shame" you. It's hard to believe that there were generation and generations of people in our country who would prefer death to shame. These days, a lot of people consider shamelessness a great relief; that's how they understand freedom. Are you one of them?
(On a related note, I think there is a VERY interesting generational issue about what is appropriate / inappropriate to do or say "in public", i.e. online. Sometimes it's not clear to me whether a kid thinks it's OK to do something in public, or s/he just hasn't thought far enough to recognize their Facebook page, RKOP post, tweet on Twitter etc. as truly public.)
It's obvious that kids are massively on their way to losing a sense of reality, and the damage they cause and endure is increasing. The question is, what are YOU going to do about it?
Also, I think the ostrich pic is amusing...
Well, after we were ostr...acized by RKOP...
SharpToNY
Posts: 15
(06/22/09 12:49 PM)
sltchocum wrote:
.
Sltchocum, it's great that you've cleaned up after yourself at last, but I hope you don't think that this is it, and you don't owe anyone an apology. I would like to know whether you've asked your father to forgive you. I'll wait till tomorrow for your answer.
p.s. and if I were you, I would also apologize to me, to Maria Sirota, and to everyone in this forum.
cyan112
Posts: 3135
(06/22/09 01:09 PM)
Oh fuck off you righteous asshole.
YOU are probably his dad and got mad when you were checking up on his computer use. Eat shit and get the hell outta here, this is a venting thread. Its for venting, about whatever the poster wants to vent about. No one here knows his dad so who the fuck cares? Seems that only you care.
Get a life!
justina18
Posts: 1359
(06/22/09 07:28 PM)
SharpToNY wrote:
p.s. and if I were you, I would also apologize to me, to Maria Sirota, and to everyone in this forum.
TJ has NOTHING to apologize for! He's a grown man, if he wishes to call his father an asshole that's his business but I don't recall him even using that word. He was just venting because his father called him a "yuppie" for putting a blend apparel sticker on his laptop. If anyone needs to apologize it's his father to him for sticking his nose in TJ's business. As someone who openly admits (and i'm going to use the word) her own father can be an asshole but that doesn't mean I love him any less. he's my dad, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I just get lucky because my dad keeps his nose in his own business and leaves mine alone.
I suggest you go fuck yourself. hopefully it will put you in a better mood to apologize to those you've upset here and go out to actually find a real life of your own instead of sticking YOUR ugly nose into OUR business.
rocketcat
Posts: 9354
(06/22/09 10:58 PM)
edited for airport posting failures...
SharpToNY wrote:
No, you don't see it. My point is that morally, you are WORSE than sltchocum. I already explained why, so there's no need to repeat it.
Indeed I do see it. I understand that's your view, and I agree that my crime is worse than his. It's just that I don't think either one is particularly significant. You're still exercised over minor offenses - go right ahead.
In some societies, even today, he would automatically be put to death for what he did.
That's why I asked - to discover whether your view of the crime was merely overzealous, or truly, dangerously insane. I was pleased to discover the former.
"In the wider context of your participation in RKOP", I do not think we are ill-positioned.
And yet you are - woefully so.
You don't know these people. I do.
You can and may think whatever you want of the board and how people interact here, but 80% or more of this community is not visible online. And the heart of this community has nothing to do with these offenses you hold so dear, nor with the effusiveness about Jason you seem to relish ridiculing(and which wears off with time here at RKOP).
And these people are fabulous. And this community is a force for good in the world. You've hung on so hard to what's wrong, the fact that the glass is 97% full seems to have escaped you completely.
These people - the ones that come here to interact with their friends, usually much more than to catch up on Jason news - are wonderful. Each of them in turn is a wonder - they are capable and fun and loving and generous and friendly. They support and love each other on and off this board - they are teachers, mentors, coaches, friends to each other. They are community-minded and fun-loving and more often than not friendly. They spread joy, in my world, in each other's world, and in the world of many others. I am not merely not smarter than they are put together, but am humbled to be accepted among their company. They are high-quality human beings, despite whatever YOUR insufficiently-nuanced view of their online behavior may be. If this has been difficult to discern in what I have to say, I truly regret it. I did not mean to be "pretending" to disapprove of them as people, or of RKOP as a community.
I am lucky to know them. You should be so lucky. Everyone should be so lucky.
Judging by your bravado, we can either conclude that you consider your moral integrity irreproachable, or you don't care about what people think of you, and their "willingness to shame" you.
I'm not surprised that that's your view of things. For me, though, neither is true. I consider myself a very flawed person, who can be reproached about all manner of things. And yet I believe that I am not ALL bad, and that I don't deserve to be put to death. I do not believe that shame is "a relief" - I believe it is one of society's tools for controlling acceptable and unacceptable behavior. This is why it's what I would expect as a "punishment". I'm ready to be judged not because I'm perfect, but because I suspect much of the world is better at it than you have proven yourself to be.
It's obvious that kids are massively on their way to losing a sense of reality, and the damage they cause and endure is increasing. The question is, what are YOU going to do about it?
Yes, yes. I know. The end is nigh. All is for naught. Woe betide us. I'm afraid you may have lost touch with where the world is headed, like it or not. I realize that you feel it is your moral duty to do something about it. All I'm saying is "have at it." I'm gonna concentrate on things I think are REALLY wrong with the world. And I'm gonna stick around here. I like it here.
It seems like such a shame for you to stick around only to miss the good stuff. But as you like.
geekinthe purple
Posts: 3307
(06/23/09 09:40 AM)
And these people are fabulous. And this community is a force for good in the world.
...I am lucky to know them. You should be so lucky. Everyone should be so lucky.
Cat, I love you. and I completely agree. I love our community. =)
MisCheryl
Posts: 7032
(06/23/09 12:00 PM)
geekinthe purple wrote:
And these people are fabulous. And this community is a force for good in the world.
...I am lucky to know them. You should be so lucky. Everyone should be so lucky.
Cat, I love you. and I completely agree. I love our community. =)
*Jeannette*
As much as this is supposed to be the venting thread, I had to jump on the love wagon.
cyan112
Posts: 3136
(06/23/09 12:15 PM)
Me too. There a lot of cool people here for sure.
Grrr I don't want to invite my co worker to my wedding....I feel like I should though. Even if just to avoid an awkward situation.
What do you guys think?
